[PWS]

@DavidS Re noise, I do think it depends whether you like the radio/music on routinely or not? I always have it on when I'm on my own in the car, not specially loud, but I'm really not aware of much wind/road noise normally. Maybe the Tesla was especially bad (skimping on sound deadening perhaps?), but the GV60 was quieter than any car I can remember being in, bar a Rolls Royce that picked me up when I was hitchhiking many years ago (true story!).

Large display sizes and unwanted tech are common to all new models, whether fossil or EV. Won't be long before you have to drive a classic car to avoid these features.

 

[DavidS]

I do usually have either Radio 2 or 6 Music on, sometimes cds or sd card of music.
I don’t have any other EV experience so would withhold judgement for now anyway.

The radio was appalling in the TVR but the sound compensated.

 

[RSQ3John]

Well, I think it was around 2.8-.3.0. But you have to remember that even though I was not doing a lot of high-speed runs, I was playing with the max acceleration quite a bit, including liberal use of the Boost button, which takes max torque up to 700Nm IIRC. So it wasn't a fair indication of my likely real-world ownership figures.

The two places that I tend to look for a good indication of consumption and range are the US EPA figures and also the EV Database figures. (Things like the WLTP data are obviously hopeless). The GV60 Sport Plus figures are at: Genesis GV60 Sport Plus . So this is saying between 223 - 453 Wh/mi depending, as ever, on circumstances. The nominal average figure is 322Wh/mile (roughly 3.1 mile/kWh), which I think is about par for the course for almost all modern EVs of similar performance and weight. That said, there's no doubt that Tesla have some special sauce or maybe the most experience of any EV maker and can often get closer to 4 miles/kWh as an overall average. Trouble is there isn't a Tesla that I specially like. Model 3 is pug ugly IMO and everything else is too big for me.

I wonder how Genesis are going to execute the servicing/warranty repair topic? The Genesis UK web site references the 5 year/50,0000 mile warranty (not that generous on the mileage side) and free servicing with stern warnings about being later than 1 month or in excess of 1,000 miles - saying one will be liable for the costs if not adhered to - and references to 'Service Partners', I wonder who that have in mind - Halfords perhaps? I jest of course but do recall another south-east Asia manufacturer doing exactly that and it wasn't a roaring success.

I really like the GV60, almost enough to place an order (a lot of dosh for a posh Hyundai ) - the devil is always in the detail.

 

[PWS]

Re servicing etc: What I'm told is that there will be an on-call service, probably with a regional service centre. If you have an issue (or maybe a routine service due) then you call the service helpline and, subject to diagnosis I presume (eg it could perhaps be a fault that the right button presses might fix or eg leave the car for 2 hours), then a courtesy car will be sent out to you quickly and your car recovered to the service centre. (But I haven't seen any target response times quoted) I guess if your car is undriveable then it will be done via a flatbed also bringing the courtesy car to you.

Genesis seem well aware of the issue and have detailed plans in place to cover it, but since the GV60 has literally only just been launched with only a handful of cars on the road as yet then I'm guessing that it will take a month or two for the system to swing fully into action. But maybe the same system is already in place for other existing Genesis models? I don't know. Also, since the GV60 is based on the same underpinnings etc as the Kia EV6 and Ioniq 5 and these have been out for maybe a year then it would be nice to think that any initial eg EV6 teething problems have been ironed out in GV60. I think Genesis realise that if they are to compete with Lexus etc then they must provide the same level of build quality and reliability. But obviously time will tell.

The one EV6/I5 issue I am aware of is that you have to be careful wiring in things like dashcams. Apparently if it's not done correctly then it's not difficult to flatten the 12v battery. (EVs still typically have 12v batteries of course for compatibility with all the ICE kit and other accessories that expect to see 12v.)

EDIT: I probably should have added re sales information & ordering. All ordering seems to happen via the website only, so there's no scope AFAICS for discounts etc. But there are 'personal assistants' or some such term who operate (I think) on a regional basis and whose role is to answer and advise on all pre-sales questions. If you make a serious enquiry through the website then I'm sure that your regional PA would be in touch within a day or two. I'm happy to pass on the name of my contact via PM but that would be for East Anglia. But I'm sure they could forward any email to the best person if you preferred that route.

 

[RSQ3John]

Thanks.

John

 

[DavidS]

For a man who enhances his exhaust noise in his RS, I can‘t see you liking a silent car John, unless you can get a ‘brm-brm-pop-pop’ kit for them.

 

[PWS]

Thing is though, I guess we all come round to the conclusion that there probably is no 100% perfect car out there for any of us. The question is about what compromises are acceptable or you can live with? I do sometimes think that a good solution is an EV for mainstream use and then a classic car to your own preferences for eg weekend fun. Obviously needs space and cash though.

 

[RSQ3John]

I have a neighbour who is a fleet disposal specialist, was in GM and then PSA and now is a freelance consultant advising manufacturers on moving vehicles coming off lease into the used car market. He's been naturally interested in my blown engine debacle so we were having a chat about that and I mentioned the EV topic - and the emergence of brands that don't have formal dealer network structures in place.

As you'd expect residual-value is dead centre for him, noting that the industry is adjusting to the idea of EVs and residual values are rising - the astronomic cost of fuel has something to do with it for sure.

He can see why brands would rather not have a dealer network as its a massively more profitable business model (makes sense), but wonders what the residual values of such vehicles would be like, he cited Polestar and the fact that Volvo dealers typically don't want them on the forecourts, don't stock spare parts and have to order everything in.

 

[DavidS]

A bit like Alfa Romeo - when did you last see a dealership?
That’s not a question for those who live near one).

 

[Gromit]

 

[PWS]

But isn't central selling plus regional service centres (with at-home servicing where possible) the model that Tesla mostly use, seemingly quite successfully. I know that they have a few Tesla centres around, but not sure whether they have much in the way of showroom facilities and anyway the nearest one is around 50 miles from me in E Anglia. Doesn't seem to have dented Tesla's success much (Best-selling EVs in the UK March 2022 with Model 3 and Model Y each selling around 6500 units.) And Tesla residuals seem to be remaining strong too.

 

[RSQ3John]

I think Tesla's approach was quite smart, IIRC they started out close to Heathrow airport and then expanded to taking retail space in shopping centres (i.e. in Solihull) and are now opening dealerships - there is one not far from me in the former Guy Salmon LR premises at Stratford upon Avon......if you sell a lot of units then you need the infrastructure to support it, feels like Tesla are stepping up to the plate.

I do believe that Tesla's opportunity window is closing fast as the German brands, who know how to build attractive, high quality vehicles already, catch up in the EV tech stakes - not quite there yet but closing fast.

The historical dubious motor trade practice of establishing a network using an existing in-country company, letting them take all the risk and then when its successful terminating the contract and running it for oneself is no doubt limiting the options for the emerging new brands.

 

[PWS]

Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens to Tesla in the future, in the UK especially, but elsewhere too. I agree that there will be stiffer challenges for Tesla in the future.

How will the Tesla advantages (superior drivetrain efficiency; supercharger network; and the fact that Tesla controls much more of its own supply chain, giving it pricing and delivery advantages) stack up against its disadvantages (slightly dubious build quality - though now that the Berlin gigafactory is onstream that may change - and perhaps failure to understand European preferences in styling, both exterior and interior, especially the preference for simple physical buttons for eg HVAC controls)? Will be interesting to see how this develops.

 

[DavidS]

Maybe I’m odd (don’t over-answer that) but every car we’ve owned or driven with climate control gets set at 18c all round and we never touch it except to hit a de-mist button about twice a year.

 

[PWS]

Maybe I’m odd (don’t over-answer that) but every car we’ve owned or driven with climate control gets set at 18c all round and we never touch it except to hit a de-mist button about twice a year.

I have to say that one of my dislikes on the F3 Q3 is that I personally don't find the aircon very consistent. My usual setting is 21C (maybe maybe I'm a reptile ) but on a longer journey I'm often flicking the temperature up or down a degree to feel comfortable again.

 

[TheJam]

And the Model 3 derived Model Y took ugliness to previously uncharted territory...

For me,the whole range of Tesla cars,makes me think they make the model designed by Homer Simpson that ruined his newly found brother’s business,look inspired 😉

 

[DavidS]

We saw one of their original sports cars parked in San Francisco that looked pretty decent, back in around 2011 maybe.
It went all wrong after that.

 

[PWS]

Wasn't that a Lotus body, styled on some existing Lotus production car?

Edit: Google tells me that it was based on a Lotus Elise chassis and I guess the body wasn't too dissimilar.

 

[DavidS]

We did think it was a Lotus until our tour guide told us it was a Tesla.
Didn’t get a close look but there might be a photo lurking in my archives.

 

[RSQ3John]

Watea - Michelin - France Only

Came across this today - Electric only leasing with the Michelin tyre company behind it. I have a notion that as cars transition to being 'appliances', most likely on a subscription service summoned from a mobile app on demand that this kind of thing will become common place.