[RSQ3John]

I tease of course, the F3 RSQ3 fuel tank(s) are a sod to fill completely too - when you get under the car you see two tank chambers either side of the propshaft and exhaust system, I have to assume that the fuel aerates, as one can spend ages getting it brimmed.

 

[mwcltd]

I have seen fuel pour out of the filler cap when the tank is brimmed. When the back pressure triggers the pump off then there is sufficient air in the tank to allow for safe expansion.

 

[RSQ3John]

And the latest update....

The Service Manager called this morning to say they are not 100% happy, the engine idle seems a little off, 'hunting', this was one of the characteristics that appeared post the 1st repair that would result in an engine check light so they have gone back to Audi for advice - I'll know more later when the A5 Coupe gets swapped for a Q5.

 

[TheJam]

And the latest update....

The Service Manager called this morning to say they are not 100% happy, the engine idle seems a little off, 'hunting', this was one of the characteristics that appeared post the 1st repair that would result in an engine check light so they have gone back to Audi for advice - I'll know more later when the A5 Coupe gets swapped for a Q5.

Jesus John,I really can’t believe the way you are being jerked around with this. You really have the patience of Job,this situation,for me,is totally untenable for your dealer/Audi to continue as they are. Sign off on your new engine as a minimum starting point,right now. And then,do whatever you wish,to try and make amends for their lousy response to your problems. I’m bloody furious just reading of your trials,I don’t know how you haven’t “gone postal” already!! 🤬🤬

 

[DavidS]

Every update makes it clear they haven’t got a clue what they are doing.
Surely Audi should should have someone dedicated to sorting this, not keep bouncing to and fro.
I think I would be asking for either a new engine or buying the car offbyou plus compensation for stress. and inconvenience. If neither forthcoming, threaten them with court action. As TheJam says, how come you are so patient now?

 

[Gromit]

I suspect they're only too painfully aware that a new engine is the only route open now, but some bean-counter at Audi has said "'OW MUCH???" and instructed them to get out of it any other way they can. I would also query the dealer's technicians' capabilities when it comes to an engine swap, not all of them are capable of handling it.

 

[TheJam]

I suspect they're only too painfully aware that a new engine is the only route open now, but some bean-counter at Audi has said "'OW MUCH???" and instructed them to get out of it any other way they can. I would also query the dealer's technicians' capabilities when it comes to an engine swap, not all of them are capable of handling it.

Very good comment Gromit,not a pleasant thought for John,though with what he’s been experiencing,I’m sure he’s already thinking the very same 😞

 

[Gas Q3]

This Is becoming ridiculous- I have great sympathy for you being in this invidious position.

It is laudable you being sympathetic to the dealer‘s position but ultimately under consumer law your contract is with the supplier ( dealer) not the manufacturer. So the ins and outs of how the 2 of them fund repairs is there problem not yours.

I would be tempted to mention to the dealer that enough is enough and that you feel you have no option but to seek legal advice. Furthermore you might find an expose in Autoexpress or similar may suddenly result in a change of heart from all concerned.

Ultimately there comes a time when you have to look after number one. I wouldn’t care if that engine was now the smoothest running on the planet I would not want it after all the messing about it has experienced plus evidence of internal metal debris etc.

 

[mwcltd]

We all know that garages have become technically deskilled. Standard or minor processes are dealt with in the majority of cases with no problems. Anything to do with engine internals are alien to the garage. I would be harder with the garage and throw in the sales of goods act which still applies to the RSQ3. I would demand that the complete engine is replaced by Audi specialists from Ingolstadt. One of my neighbours had an equivalent problem with a BMW. Eventually he made a sandwich board and walked up and down the pavement outside the dealership being very vocal. Within three hours they agreed to his terms.

 

[mwcltd]

I totally agree with Gas Q3. However, I would approach the Which magazine, as they are an independent consumer magazine.

 

[RSQ3John]

The service manager dropped off a Q5 (standard non-Sline) TDI 4.0 this evening - a decent thing to drive, feels no larger than the F3 Q3, and with a tank of fuel too.

We had a frank discussion over the original failure and I saw pictures of the shattered camshaft rockers - with the camshaft lobe ends literally snapped off, he suspects as do I, that there are still metal fragments somewhere in the engine, maybe visible to the naked eye or maybe not, I also got to see the flake of metal that is believed to have impaired the function of the valve actuator - there could be others that have not yet appeared.

The next step is to compare the idle characteristics with another F3 RS on Monday - which, of course, will idle smoothly because they all do - the next step will be getting Audi AG to authorise a replacement engine. I sincerely doubt that VAG have a replacement lump in stock so I'll be sticking miles on the Q5 for a while longer. If they don't, well there are still 3.5 years and 72,000 miles of Warranty cover remaining. . Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here - the warranty extension option to 5 years/90,000 miles is worth having?

With regard to being patient over the repair process, yeah I am.

I've stood where the Service Manager is (albeit 38+ years ago in a Ford dealer when the utterly evil Sierra, an escapee from R&D, had been dropped in our laps - Gromit will remember) and know all too well what it's like to have a stroppy driver demanding everything, it doesn't help one iota. The dealer didn't make the car, they are stuck in the middle between me and Audi UK/AG. It is more effective to be patient, let the process complete without pressure for anyone to make a hasty decision just to get rid of the irritating customer. The dealer staff have become advocates on my behalf, they want a satisfactory conclusion too. I didn't ask for the Q5, it was voluntarily offered with the observation that the A5s are low whilst a Q5 is another SUV - customer centric care.

Sure, its really annoying, but at the end of the day it's just a car - there are much more serious things in life to get worked up about.

 

[-Ju-]

The service manager dropped off a Q5 (standard non-Sline) TDI 4.0 this evening - a decent thing to drive, feels no larger than the F3 Q3, and with a tank of fuel too.

We had a frank discussion over the original failure and I saw pictures of the shattered camshaft rockers - with the camshaft lobe ends literally snapped off, he suspects as do I, that there are still metal fragments somewhere in the engine, maybe visible to the naked eye or maybe not, I also got to see the flake of metal that is believed to have impaired the function of the valve actuator - there could be others that have not yet appeared.

The next step is to compare the idle characteristics with another F3 RS on Monday - which, of course, will idle smoothly because they all do - the next step will be getting Audi AG to authorise a replacement engine. I sincerely doubt that VAG have a replacement lump in stock so I'll be sticking miles on the Q5 for a while longer. If they don't, well there are still 3.5 years and 72,000 miles of Warranty cover remaining. . Perhaps there is a lesson to be learned here - the warranty extension option to 5 years/90,000 miles is worth having?

With regard to being patient over the repair process, yeah I am.

I've stood where the Service Manager is (albeit 38+ years ago in a Ford dealer when the utterly evil Sierra, an escapee from R&D, had been dropped in our laps - Gromit will remember) and know all too well what it's like to have a stroppy driver demanding everything, it doesn't help one iota. The dealer didn't make the car, they are stuck in the middle between me and Audi UK/AG. It is more effective to be patient, let the process complete without pressure for anyone to make a hasty decision just to get rid of the irritating customer. The dealer staff have become advocates on my behalf, they want a satisfactory conclusion too. I didn't ask for the Q5, it was voluntarily offered with the observation that the A5s are low whilst a Q5 is another SUV - customer centric care.

Sure, its really annoying, but at the end of the day it's just a car - there are much more serious things in life to get worked up about.

Well said John and entirely correct.
No matter what us internet warriors think or say it is you that has to make and live by the decisions you make.
Unfortunately it is a fact of life that things can and do go wrong and maybe in retrospect the dealers should have picked up on the fact the engine would be full of debris, but they didn't and it's where you are now.
Hopefully the situation will be soon be resolved and you will eventually get back a fully repaired car with a shiny new engine.
In the meantime you get to play in a Q5 for a bit, it's not the end of the world now is it!

 

[TheJam]

Well said John and entirely correct.
No matter what us internet warriors think or say it is you that has to make and live by the decisions you make.
Unfortunately it is a fact if life that things can and do go wrong and maybe in retrospect the dealers should have picked up on the fact the engine would be full of debris, but they didn't and it's where you are now.
Hopefully the situation will be soon be resolved and you will eventually get back a fully repaired car with a shiny new engine.
In the meantime you get to play in a Q5 for a bit, it's not the end of the world now is it!

-Ju- of course,John and you are correct,getting crabby I guess achieves little. You guys are a little older than I,more mature,maybe I will mellow as I get older,more likely to continue my metamorphosis into Victor Meldrew however 😉

 

[Gromit]

With regard to being patient over the repair process, yeah I am.

I've stood where the Service Manager is (albeit 38+ years ago in a Ford dealer when the utterly evil Sierra, an escapee from R&D, had been dropped in our laps - Gromit will remember) and know all too well what it's like to have a stroppy driver demanding everything, it doesn't help one iota. The dealer didn't make the car, they are stuck in the middle between me and Audi UK/AG. It is more effective to be patient, let the process complete without pressure for anyone to make a hasty decision just to get rid of the irritating customer. The dealer staff have become advocates on my behalf, they want a satisfactory conclusion too. I didn't ask for the Q5, it was voluntarily offered with the observation that the A5s are low whilst a Q5 is another SUV - customer centric care.

Sure, its really annoying, but at the end of the day it's just a car - there are much more serious things in life to get worked up about.

Agreed in all respects John - been there, done that, still got the scars. I've also been in a very similar position to you as previously touched on but it's worth detailing. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin...

Back in '07 I ordered a new Jaguar X-Type 2.5SE V6 4WD Automatic Estate from Barretts of Ashford, Kent. Collecting it a few weeks later went fine but the following morning I found out the hard way that the automatic transmission was terminally screwed. Barretts responded promptly, trucked the offending vehicle away and delivered their demonstrator within an hour for my free use until the problem was fixed. Now, anyone who might have looked under the bonnet of an X-Type V6 will know that there's no room for even a *** paper in there and changing the transmission involves removing the engine and pretty much everything else there. Six weeks later (they had to take a new 'box off the production line which just-in-time supply makes a bit tricky) they reassembled it and handed the car over. Driving it, however, revealed a lot of irritating and ominous sounding noises that weren't there before, so back it went. Two days later the admitted that they were unable to find the source of the additional noises so at that point I reluctantly rejected the car.

Now, the point of this saga is two-fold: first, main dealer technicians do not always know as much as they should in our opinion as customers, and second, it really pays to be polite, courteous and friendly to the dealer as in my case it REALLY paid off...

The sales manager understood fully why I was rejecting the car, thanked me for allowing them the time and space to rectify the problem first, and assured me I could continue to keep the demonstrator for as long as it took to source a replacement vehicle. Not only that, they found a stock one identical in colour and spec to the one I ordered but with the addition of two further expensive options, offered it to me at the same price as the original and threw in a bunch of free services.

As previously stated, that vehicle stayed with me for 100,000 largely trouble-free miles and I can't praise Barretts too highly for the trouble they went to to rectify the problem. However, if I had been THAT customer and thrown my toys out of my pram at them the result could and would have been significantly different.

 

[DavidS]

Agreed in principle Gromit but there has to come a time when they have had long enough and the owner has been inconvenienced beyond the expectation of your experience. This is particularly so when they haven’t really got a clue how to permanently resolve it.

Got got cheesed off enough when VW couldn’t sort out a suspension recall in three attempts because no-one had a removal tool. I bought a BMW two weeks later. Trekking to and from Hastings and Tonbridge when I was supposed to be working gets tiresome - at least I was self employed. I can’t see an employer being to keen on these disappearances.

 

[Gas Q3]

Fair enough, only you can judge how helpful your dealer is being etc and how patient you want to be.

Personally as a minimum I would be making it known that a new engine was the only resolution I would be satisfied with even if I did so in a non confrontational way ( ie asking the dealer how he would feel if it was his car etc).

I too have had bad experiences- one resulting in a protracted rejection of a car. TBH I much prefer the patient understanding approach where a relationship is built with the dealer. However I found the that in in the end the dealer was taking advantage of my good nature and just stalling. In the end I had, to my regret, to become confrontational to get a result. As I said only you can judge how a good and honest your dealer is being and if you get a result remaining on good terms is obviously the best outcome. Having said that I would not be prepared to be “short changed” just to prevent upsetting the dealer.

I sincerely hope you get a resolution to your satisfaction in the near future - it is the least you deserve.

 

[Noggin]

Being the age I am I find the adverts to the right of the page uncannily relevant. The older I get the more I have to fight the feeling

 

[RSQ3John]

Fair enough, only you can judge how helpful your dealer is being etc and how patient you want to be.

Personally as a minimum I would be making it known that a new engine was the only resolution I would be satisfied with even if I did so in a non confrontational way ( ie asking the dealer how he would feel if it was his car etc).

I too have had bad experiences- one resulting in a protracted rejection of a car. TBH I much prefer the patient understanding approach where a relationship is built with the dealer. However I found the that in in the end the dealer was taking advantage of my good nature and just stalling. In the end I had, to my regret, to become confrontational to get a result. As I said only you can judge how a good and honest your dealer is being and if you get a result remaining on good terms is obviously the best outcome. Having said that I would not be prepared to be “short changed” just to prevent upsetting the dealer.

I sincerely hope you get a resolution to your satisfaction in the near future - it is the least you deserve.

I appreciate the support Gas Q3.

I'm mindful that the dealer isn't 'Audi', they are just an appointed agent who have to play by the rules set by the importer and ultimately the mothership in the form of Audi AG, failure to play by the rules equals not being able to recover costs from the warranty system. In my case I sourced the vehicle from Norwich Audi, whereas the dealer with the current challenge is Stratford Audi, I have bought at least 5 new cars and one used from there over the years, so respected as a loyal local customer.

When things get awkward, as is the case now, the wise approach is to 100% support the dealer team and be open that one is going to raise a case with Audi Customer Services to pursue a resolution - this I have done already. Audi CS liaise with the Warranty teams both in UK and Germany and of course the dealer themselves. The dealer actually appreciates the honesty and additional support - whilst the Warranty team might be awkward towards the dealer with CS involved there is an intense desire to get the case closed/resolved as there will be a performance metric for this internally.

 

[Gas Q3]

Ah I hadn’t realised that the supplying dealer was different to the one you are dealing with now.

As I said your support for the dealer‘s position is very audible and that in itself should at least keep them on your side. I must admit that I do get cross with the way these arrangements with the dealer are dictated by the manufacturer to their advantage hence my comment about this not being your problem when things go horribly wrong and hence potential recourse to the protections afforded by consumer law.

I really hope Audi CS recognise you as the loyal, reasonable and deserving customer you have proven to be And treat you accordingly.

 

[DavidS]

Or it could be argued that every owner should be treated equally.
I hate it when celebs seem to get different service (unless they are acting as PR agents).

Influencers - there is a hideous non-occupation.